Arizona Hunting Forums banner
21 - 40 of 61 Posts
If a landowner has illegally closed an access road to the public land its a simple matter to discover. Go to the county assessor and find out if the road has been vacated. If not then you can begin legal action to get it opened back up.
 
In the cases that I am familiar with the closing have been legal and that is what causes the problem. It's their land so short of fighting a eminent domain process we are stuck at the gate looking in. I know from the minutes of some meeting with local hunting groups, G&F and the FS, they are working on moving some roads but in a number of cases there is nowhere to move the road and dealing with doing anything with the FS takes years of studies, hearing, white papers and just general federal government snags.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
There is some good work being done in SE AZ between Southern AZ Quail Forever, G&F and the Forest Service in efforts to open up land that has been closed to access
Lynn can ya give me one instance where SE AZ Quail Forever was successful in getting private land opened to ALL types of hunting? SE AZ Quail Forever, in my opinion, is about SE AZ Quail Forever and that is all. Maybe Big Tub can chime in here I think he is/was active in the organization.

Private property owners must post their property at all vehicle entry points, every quarter mile and at four foot heights. They can also color code their fence post at the quarter mile instead of posting the no hunting signage. I use to call quite often in that stretch of road between Patagonia and Sonoita that Lynn talks about and yes a lot of it is privately owned but not near as much as the ranchers and individual home owners would want you to believe. I would find a place I wanted to call in, I would crawl under the fence and start calling. If the alleged property owner came out and told me to leave I would. However I would remind him of those requirements I just mentioned and tell him that I would probably be back. If we as hunter have rules and regulations to follow so do the ranchers

I FOR ONE WILL NOT BACK DOWN FROM THESE SOB'S NOR SHOULD YOU. YOU WILL DIE OF OLD AGE IF YOU WAIT FOR THE POLITICIANS TO DO ANYTHING IN YOUR FAVOR.
 
In the cases that I am familiar with the closing have been legal and that is what causes the problem.
If you have private property that's landlocked by other private property the court will grant easement if you can prove you own it and the easement is reasonably necessary. It seems pretty straightforward on both those points where the public is the owner.
 
Private property owners must post their property at all vehicle entry points, every quarter mile and at four foot heights.
I know you have posted that before and I am not doubting you but can you quote the ARS that covers this?
 
Thanks for that and I had to go back and look at notes that I was sent about land access issues in Santa Cruz Co but I think Hogg Canyon was one that they were able to get opened to access. I admit I don't have all of the info or details and I am going off of meeting notes.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
Thank you D265, I also found the copy that I have typed up and laminated to show these so called property owners who think they own the whole state. I think I'll copy yours it's smaller and more "legal' looking.

Okay lynn your turn what has the quail folks accomplished - other than talk a good game, or just helps the bird hunters.


Hunters are permitted to enter onto land unless lawfully posted. Signs must be at least eight inches by eleven inches with plainly legible wording in capital and bold-faced lettering at least one inch high. The sign must have the words "no hunting", "no trapping" or "no fishing" either as a single phrase or in any combination. The signs must be conspicuously placed on a structure or post at least four feet above ground level at all points of vehicular access, at all property or fence corners and at intervals of not more than one-quarter mile along the property boundary. A sign with one hundred square inches or more of orange paint may serve as the interval notices between property or fence corners and points of vehicular access. The orange paint shall be clearly visible and shall cover the entire above ground surface of the post facing outward and on both lateral sides from the closed area.Hunters are permitted to enter onto land unless lawfully posted. Signs must be at least eight inches by eleven inches with plainly legible wording in capital and bold-faced lettering at least one inch high. The sign must have the words "no hunting", "no trapping" or "no fishing" either as a single phrase or in any combination. The signs must be conspicuously placed on a structure or post at least four feet above ground level at all points of vehicular access, at all property or fence corners and at intervals of not more than one-quarter mile along the property boundary. A sign with one hundred square inches or more of orange paint may serve as the interval notices between property or fence corners and points of vehicular access. The orange paint shall be clearly visible and shall cover the entire above ground surface of the post facing
 
See post 27

I know they have been meeting with G&F and NFS. Ask them for meeting minutes. There may be more going on than you think.
 
Thank you D265
I became familiar with these laws after I started using onx. I've found some of them aren't real honest about their property boundaries and I've found some that are dishonest about what is and what isn't private. A couple spots around where I like to hunt/scout/goof off have public roads that lead up to the private land, but are in fact public. They've got signs up to make it look like the whole stretch is private.

I haven't had any problems with locked gates in there, and to be honest I don't mind too much because it keeps all the ATV's out of there for the most part. But it's nice to know where you stand legally if someone wants to challenge you about it.

Something I've never got clarification on but always wondered about is the legality of putting signs on public land if you're not in an official position to do so. Like I said, some of them I've used to my benefit but some really toe the line of outright lying.
 
Something I've never got clarification on but always wondered about is the legality of putting signs on public land if you're not in an official position to do so.
ARS17-304B?
Is that what you are asking about? Can't post land with consent of the commission.

I ran into one of those situations at Bogg Ranch along the Blue River. It is Forest Service Land but the people leasing it have it posted. I called Apache NF and ask and was told that it was not supposed to be and the "renters" had been told to remove the signs. Next trip I will see if they are still up.
 
Is that what you are asking about?
Not exactly. Here's a good example, one guy has a sign up that says something about his "private shooting range" and to exercise caution. But he's got it posted on a public road that's more than 1/2 mile from his property. I saw it and thought "does that mean he's shooting across the road?" Then I started wondering if he's allowed to put signs wherever he wants on public land.
 
Not exactly. Here's a good example, one guy has a sign up that says something about his "private shooting range" and to exercise caution. But he's got it posted on a public road that's more than 1/2 mile from his property. I saw it and thought "does that mean he's shooting across the road?" Then I started wondering if he's allowed to put signs wherever he wants on public land.
It's like the sign that says, "Do you believe in life after death? Trespass here and find out". LOL JM
 
I have been reading this thread since it started and I have a question, not sure if it has been answered or not. If a private property owner has a marked forest service road running through their property can they block it off? Or do there have to leave it open because it is a forest service road.

I think the more I start to hunt and explore the different units around the state the more I will understand this type of stuff. I have only ever hunted national forest land and state trust land.
 
It's like the sign that says, "Do you believe in life after death? Trespass here and find out". LOL JM
All I'm saying is that sign belongs on his locked gate (which he has at the entrance to his property) and not a 1/2 mile away on a public road. With that said if a stray bullet from his private range passed by me or my truck on a public road I'd give him a one way all access pass to meet Jesus.
 
I have been reading this thread since it started and I have a question, not sure if it has been answered or not. If a private property owner has a marked forest service road running through their property can they block it off? Or do there have to leave it open because it is a forest service road.

I think the more I start to hunt and explore the different units around the state the more I will understand this type of stuff. I have only ever hunted national forest land and state trust land.
NFS roads are public rights of way that can only be blocked for public safety issues such as fires, washouts etc.
 
NFS roads are public rights of way that can only be blocked for public safety issues such as fires, washouts etc.
If FS does not have an easement a gate can be locked blocking access. We had Coronado National Forest road engineer and G&F Wildlife Manager at our Southern Arizona Quail Forever meeting this week discussing this subject. The public has recently lost driving access to 32,000 acres of public NF land in Southern Arizona due to legal gate closures because FS does not have easements.
 
If FS does not have an easement a gate can be locked blocking access. We had Coronado National Forest road engineer and G&F Wildlife Manager at our Southern Arizona Quail Forever meeting this week discussing this subject. The public has recently lost driving access to 32,000 acres of public NF land in Southern Arizona due to legal gate closures because FS does not have easements.
Interesting. How long have the roads been there? And where is this occurring exactly?
 
If FS does not have an easement a gate can be locked blocking access. We had Coronado National Forest road engineer and G&F Wildlife Manager at our Southern Arizona Quail Forever meeting this week discussing this subject. The public has recently lost driving access to 32,000 acres of public NF land in Southern Arizona due to legal gate closures because FS does not have easements.
This is already happening in Montana. There is something called a "Prescriptive easment", but until it can be proved in court, the gates remain locked. A real estate lawyer can explain this much better than I. In fact I may have it all wrong, but the folks that own the properties are billionaires and are experts at delay, delay, delay. The FS and BLM have oceans of bureaucratic BS to navigate too. The Montana boys are getting close enough to smell a victory or two, but it's been slow rough sledding. JM
 
21 - 40 of 61 Posts