Antelope and Coyotes

Discussion in 'Predators & Furbearers' started by Chief, Mar 12, 2007.

  1. Chief

    Chief Guest

    [​IMG]

    I put in for this area for antelope. While we were away my son was out doing some scouting, however he wasn't the only one doing some scouting.[​IMG]

    Sorry for the poor quality, they are sharp and clear in my photo album. There are two coyotes in the bottom picture.
     
  2. Chief,


    That one in the front looks like a decent goat. Hard to tell the length but judging by the glare I would say in the 14-15" range maybe bigger.
     

  3. Hey Chief,

    Your post the PERFECT example of why we, as hunters, must carry our rifles every time we scout. We HAVE to do our part in controlling the coyote populations. Coyotes are prolific breeders and decimate the antelope fawn crop every year. I guide for antelope and see first hand every year what the coyotes do to the antelope fawns. I carry my rifle everywhere I go and I shoot lots of coyotes every year just while scouting for antelope. Humans are the only animal that can keep the coyotes in check. Remember, if we want to manage the wildlife we must also manage the predators of that wildlife.

    Not trying to take anything away from your cool pictures, though. I just saw a great example of my point.

    Thanks for the pics.
     
  4. Chief

    Chief Guest

    I surely would not argue with you about coyotes taking a fair share of young fawns as I also worked ADC for two years here in AZ, NM and portions of CO. I been killing coyotes for damn near the best part of 50 years and the Good Lord willing I'll be doing it for, well maybe not another 50 but a few more. I just don't kill this time of year, won't kill them from Feb through Aug/Sep time period, use to just don't anymore. I would be willing to bet that the land developer/housing tracts and greed has done more to hurt the antelope population than the coyotes have. Recreational killing of coyotes will do absolutely nothing to the coyote population. Don't mean to get into a pissing contest over this issue, if'n the law allows it, which it does, by all means have at it.
     
  5. AZ~ThunderDan

    AZ~ThunderDan Site Administrator Staff Member Super Mod Mod Premium Member

    6,526
    652
    2,318
    I can see both sides of the debate. I do, however, feel that if every hunter seized every opportunity to eliminate every coyote he/she encounters, it would make a noticeable impact on fawn survival. You'll never eliminate the coyote, but we can help reduce their impact to fawn survival. The 3-Bar Study did much to prove that fawn survival neared 100% when predators were eliminated from the equation. It would stand to reason that reducing coyotes by "opportunity hunting" will/would have some measurable impact.

    I'm totally with Chief, (and I know Blake is too) in that coyote hunting for sport should be done in early fall through early winter. I would really like to see the coyote tournament folks scheduling their hunts during these time periods as well. There's a good 1-week opportunity in November where there are little to no authorized big-game hunts or seasonal fawn drops.

    I also agree that the 40-acre ranch-ette and urban growth has wreaked havoc on the prime antelope habitat in Arizona.
     
  6. Chief,

    I respect your thoughts 100%. I don't hunt coyotes in the summer either. I do, however, think that right now is the most important time of all to hunt them. I am not very proficient in searching the internet for studies, but I know there have been several of them done that show the enormous positive effects of intense coyote management the previous two weeks before the antelope fawns are dropped. Dan, you can find anything on the net. Can you help me out here? I hate to say that stuff without facts to back it up.

    As far as the urban sprawl and housing developments, I couldn't agree with you more. There just isn't much that I can do about that, though. I do what I can and I hunt the coyotes in an effort to do my part to help the antelope out. I guess maybe I get jaded when I am out scouting and I glass up an antelope doe about to give birth and about 50 yards away from her is a coyote just waiting for that fawn to hit the ground. When it doesn't hit the ground soon enough, the coyote just strolls on in there and basically takes that fawn right out of the doe and runs off with it. That whole scene is just sad and makes me more passionate about predator control. I know some argue that it's just "nature" and it happens all the time. While they are technically correct, it doesn't mean that we as hunters can't do our part to help the antelope out some. Coyotes will never be wiped out, but our antelope just might be if we don't get a handle on things.
     
  7. Chief

    Chief Guest

    I hunted them for 24 months straight, ran them with dogs, shot them from helicopters, dug out their dens and killed the pups, called them at night, trapped them and snared them, killed them every which way the law allowed. One particuliar antelope herd had our undivided attention for 2 weeks prior to the fawn drop and two weeks after the fawn drop. The fawn mortality rate, from coyotes, was less than 10%. That was back in the mid-80's, that herd has not had any professional predator work done since and the fawn survival rate is almost down to zero. The biggest problem is that this herd is now almost completely surrounded by housing, and hunting has almost come to a complete stop due to safety zone restrictions, nor is trapping (leg hold) allowed. I don't know what the solution is but I do know that I gained a whole hellva lot of respect for them in the two years that I hunted them professionally and it is a respect that I still hold for them today.

    I think we are all saying the same thing in this regards.



    PS - You can bet the ranch that come Mid-August I'll be out there calling them :beer:
     
  8. I have killed quite a few coyotes during the summer off of water holes. Used to do it with my bow, which is a blast. One thing I learned, if you can draw on a coyote, you can draw on anything.
    Since I dont live in the desert anymore, I dont get to do that.
    Remember, the only good coyote is a dead coyote.
     
  9. Cochise

    Cochise Guest

    There's a herd of antelope in one of the areas where I like to hunt coyotes. The last few years. There's been 15 antelope in the herd. I've never have seen any young ones. This year the most that I could count was thirteen. Still have not seen any young ones. One thing that I've noticed was that in the area where the antelope seem to stay. The coyote numbers are at thier highest. I've sort of adopted that herd. I spend a lot of time in the area shooting every coyote that I can. It doesn't seem to make any difference how many coyotes I shoot. I can't hurt the population of coyotes in this one small area. I usually do my coyote hunting in the fall and winter. I'm not against spending some time in the summer protecting, (or trying to) this one little herd of antelope. There use to be quite a few antelope around S.E. Az. Not so anymore. I would like to see this herd grow. It doesn't look good. How long can they last without offspring? We as hunters need to do what we can to make sure that there's enough wildlife around for us and future generations of hunters, and others to enjoy. I believe that predator control is very important to achieve the future of our wildlife. That and stop building houses all over the darn place. especially in our sacred hunting grounds!
     
  10. Chief

    Chief Guest

    Hey Cochise welcome back, were you been?